Book Club

Marple Stories

Christie never intended Miss Marple to rival Poirot in the publics affections, but this spinster sleuth soon proved a hit with the public.  Here's the place to discuss her stories - but beware spoilers!

If you can't find your favourite Miss Marple story, don't worry - more will be added shortly.

Warning: These discussions may contain spoilers!

The Body in the Library

Moderator1 10 Nov 09 at 8:46 a.m. GMT

It's obviously going to be a shock to find a dead body in your house but at least Dolly Bantry has her old friend Jane Marple to help find out just who this young girl is and, more importantly, why her life ended in the library in Gossington Hall.  When Miss Marple discovers that hotel guest Conway Jefferson planned to legally adopt the girl, Jefferson's family seem the obvious people to start asking questions of.

Is this plot a little far-fetched?  Or does it work for its time?  Published in the early 40s, were people more accepting then of the attentions of a rich man to a young lady he hardly knew?

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Tommy_A_Jones 05 Sep 12 at 1:54 p.m. GMT

It was one of the times when 1 person was murdered because the person who was really the motive was someone else and timing meant someone else had to die.

murder_is_easy I didn't feel it dragged and if it did not as much as the Joan Hickson version of Caribbean Mystery.

enessee 04 Sep 12 at 9:10 p.m. GMT

To answer your question ksw: the schoolgirl Pamela was needed in order to secure Josie & Mark's alibi. Mark clearly could not have killed Ruby during the period of time the body identified as Ruby was determined to have died, as although he was missing for the early part of that period he returned whilst Ruby was clearly still alive in front of witnesses and he was with others subsequently. It was during that early period he killed Pamela and disposed of her body in Blake's house dressed in some of Ruby's old clothes. It was later that the real Ruby was murdered and this fact disguised by the burning of her body, which was left with identifiable parts of Pamela's clothing to imply it was her. There was ostensibly nothing to connect Josie &  Mark with that death. Basil Blake had been set up to take the rap for both murders by the initial placement of Pamela's body in his house and by the trail left pointing to Pamela having been enticed  away  by someone connected with movies. Hope this helps clarify.

enessee 04 Sep 12 at 9:08 p.m. GMT

A few posts here raise the question of how the idea of Josie & Mark being maried could be deduced. It seems to me to rest on Miss Marple's observation of the strangled girl's finger nails being chewed rather than cut, which she thought did not fit with Ruby's position. It later became clear that Ruby had long fingernails as one was observed to have been broken (Miss Marple's suspicion was confirmed by the emergence of  some subterfuge by Josie to make it appear that the rest had been cut short). Miss Marple therefore concluded that the body in the library was not Ruby but could quite likely be the missing schoolgirl. This inevitably led to the conclusion that Josie was involved in the murder because she was the one who falsely identified the body as Ruby. The problem was that Josie appeared not to have a motive, but Miss marple knew she was involved. Given that the strongest motives (inheritance) appeared to accrue to Mrs Jefferson and Mark, Miss Marple concluded that the most likely probablility was that Josie's motive was inheritance by proxy, i.e. via marriage to Mark, with whom she did associate quite a lot. It was only proof that was lacking and it was the Somerset House idea which led to the proof.

codebreaking 03 May 12 at 7:38 a.m. GMT

Just started this one, it seems ok

ksw 29 Jan 12 at 12:45 p.m. GMT

Hi everyone, I just started reading AC novels and have never had any problems understanding the books or plot before this one.

Perhaps I am missing the obvious, but I just don't understand why the school girl had to be killed and dressed to look like Ruby?

Why not just kill Ruby and put her in Basil's house and leave it at that? Where does the school girl and the switching of the bodies come into it?

I am a bit confused about that part of things.

Thanks for any help.

murder_is_easy123 16 Oct 11 at 10:10 a.m. GMT

Just watched the 1984 Joan Hickson adaptation, and although it dragged on a bit, it was very well-made and interesting to watch.  I have been itching to see it since I finished the book, and I must say it was definitely worth it!

rachabc 15 Aug 11 at 1:03 p.m. GMT

Literally just finished reading this book. It took me 2 nights to read it literally couldn't put it down!:)

Agathasmykid 24 Jul 11 at 2:45 p.m. GMT

Interesting to read that there is lots of love for this book....for me it was an average Christie.  I enjoyed the pacing, and the initial concept of finding an unknown body in one's library was great however...I thought the characters were underdeveloped, making it hard to really understand them.   I  am not sure I felt anyone to be a really strong suspect until the scene with Basil near the end,and I felt this affected the suspense level in the book.

That's just my two cents, however as far as Marple books go, I rate Vicarage above this one (I still have several more to read). 

Quin90 15 Jul 11 at 7:20 a.m. GMT

Mark Gaskell and Josie Turner. The most unlikely pair to have been secretly married but then again Christie does love shocking her readers to a point!I suppose it's comes in handy sometimes to suspect the unlikely people!?

This was a lovely plot though.It definitely gives you the run around!!?

detectivefan010 16 Jan 11 at 10:47 a.m. GMT

It is true that Miss Marple's Body in the Library is an awesome book.Just when one thinks that the murderer is nailed by Miss Marple,more twists rise.It is a brilliantly written story.Miss Marple once agains proves her worldly wisdom.

Tommy_A_Jones 14 Jan 11 at 4:19 p.m. GMT

If Conway had died at the start there would have been no book just like if The Murderer had met the First victim and killed him down a back alley in A Murder Is Announced There would be no bookm If Conway had died at the Beginning SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER Would not have found a Body to dump At Gossington Hall, come to think of it, I can't remember how he came accross the body in the First place.

Tommy_A_Jones 10 Jan 11 at 5:06 p.m. GMT

I don't think it is the only time someone turns out to have been married to someone else and there be no clue for the Reader, What about in At Bertram's Hotel and The Mirror Crack'd all though the last instance isn't as impoirtant.

Mr_Graves 13 Dec 10 at 10:13 p.m. GMT

Your last thought is very interesting.. I think certainly the fact that Mr Jefferson was intending to leave Ruby with such a sum of money as £100, 000 would have, in real life, an effect on people, but his interest in her I don't think was unusual. What year is this- 1941? I am no expert, but my feeling is that it would be scandalous to leave Ruby all that money, but not to spend time with her. I think we of the modern world are a little less unassuming! We would be the ones to think of Conway Jefferson as a dirty old man!  

Mr_west 06 Dec 10 at 5:23 p.m. GMT

great story, very strong plot

HUGE SPOILERS

I doubt if there is another tragic murder like that one. (except Crooked House) the all characters were very convincing, i didn't even notice the descriptions of the body though i think that was queer that AC give many details about the body.

i think that even i the end, we don't "know" Ruby because there are only few think that we learn about her from other people and still they are not realy flattering her, not typical to Agatha Christie.

when i read it i thought the murderer is Conway!

it could be genius if he was the killer, and you need to fix in the plot few things for that to be possible, actually, there is only one thing that remove Conway from the suspects list, he can't drive.

the doctor say he is still strong and even can walk with crutches so he could kill Ruby, but then he still couldn't  take her into someone else's house in St. Mary Mead.

there was one clue i just couldn't understand, how do we spouse to know that Josie and Mark are marry? there is nothing that can tell us that (or i miss something?) and it's an important clue, it's change Josie's motive, we do have a little hint when miss marple talk to Dinah Lee but still i think it's not fair.

when AC wrote this book it was scandal for an old man to spend time with young girl?

Pongo 23 Sep 10 at 8:47 a.m. GMT

I admit to not being a scholar, let alone being any good at studies.  But, I would say that "deus ex machina" is a commonly known term in general studies and literary studies, which is due to the fact that Ancient Greek philosophy and theatre is the direct precedent to modern-day Western literature, in which AC is undoubtedly a part.  So, it would not be out of place at all to discuss AC stories by using Aristotlean terms, etc.  

As for The Body in the Library, I like your comment xrysoula!  Very well said.  

SPOILERS FOR THE NOVEL

However, I would still stand by my assertion that the suspicion of Josie rests solely on the fact that she is a woman and not on any other clue as to the marriage.  (Of course, there is the great clue when Josie finds out that the body was found at Gossington Hall rather than at Basil's house, but that clue does not at all betray the fact of her marriage to Mark Gaskill.)  So, unless I am missing any clue that would have suggested the marriage, then the only thing that we the reader are given is the Somerset House trick, which is, as I said before, the only part of this great great book that I disliked.  

xrysoula 22 Sep 10 at 7:24 a.m. GMT

Yes, but Miss Marple had already guessed that Basil and his blond (I don 't recall her name) were married, because she mentions that they fought like a married couple. Then the blond asks Miss Marple if she had been to Somerset House, and that gives her the idea of looking up for a possible marriage between Mark and Josie, too, that would give the latter an equal motive to murder Ruby. Remember, Miss Marple also mentions that she had reasons to believe from the very beginning that there was a woman involved in the crime (cherchez la femme!), and the female who 's personality raised more suspicion was, indeed, Josie!

So, all the above considered, I didn 't find Miss Marple 's inspiration so inexplicable. It 's funny you should mention the expression "deus ex machina" though, Pongo - I was just about to use it in another post of mine. Is it commonly known? I wonder if anyone else here is familiar with it, since it derives from ancient greek tragedies. 

Pongo 17 Sep 10 at 12:45 p.m. GMT

SPOILERS

I love this novel.  

I really love it.  I love the development of the mythos of St. Mary Mead from Murder at the Vicarage and the Thirteen Problems.  I feel like St. Mary Mead has become the true microcosm that Miss Marple has always claimed it to be in that, here, we seem to get a real "sordid" "underbelly" feel to that world and its environs.  The victims are innocent youths, St Mary Mead is contrasted by the likes of Basil Blake and the ambiguous nature of Conway Jefferson and his relationship with Ruby Keene.  

If I had to pick one thing that bugged me, it would be Miss Marple's reliance near the end of Somerset House.  First, AC does not, if I recall correctly, litter the novel with clues regarding the true nature of the relationship between Mark Gaskill and Josie Turner.  Then, Miss Marple suddenly gets reminded of Somerset House, and from then it acts like a kind of deus ex machina that magically resolves the mystery.  I would much rather have preferred more of the chance to have ascertained the fact of their marriage.  However, that aside, this is a near perfect Marple novel. 

Mr_Graves 12 Sep 10 at 9:48 p.m. GMT

A very good point, Miss Quin! Well, there could be many reasons why Conway Jefferson was not murdered... Maybe the two murderers were planning to murder him, if they were really that desperate, and then Ruby came along and threatened their plans, so they started to plan her murder instead. But then they would've been better to kill Mr Jefferson before he changed his will. If they killed him before he did, then all the money would go to Ruby, so..... Oh well.

If Christie's novels are anything to go by, criminals are not what they used to be!

xrysoula 09 Sep 10 at 5:24 p.m. GMT

Very well put, GKCfan. That 's exactly what I thought while reading this book, too. 

GKCfan 09 Sep 10 at 7:10 a.m. GMT

Yes, the murder of Ruby was necessary from the killers' perspective.  The thing is, they didn't WANT to murder Conway Jefferson.  It would've been too much of a risk.  If he'd died suddenly (he was terminally ill but was expected to last several more months), there would've been suspicions and an autopsy.  It was much safer for the killers to just wait for him to die of natural causes.  Indeed, the killers were more than willing to let nature take its course and inherit legitimately.  It wouldn't have been a long wait, probably a year at most. However, Jefferson decided to adopt Ruby, which would have made HER the principal heir.  The adoption would've happened soon, so the murderers decided to kill Ruby to prevent her from becoming next in line for the Jefferson fortune, and killed an innocent girl in order to establish an alibi.  They would then have allowed Jefferson to die naturally (although they secretly hoped that the shock and grief would prove too much for him).  Miss Marple concocted the trap about Jefferson changing his will in order to force the killers to make an attempt on his life.  If they'd injected him with something to start with and tried to pass it off as death by shock, the perceptive doctors would've suspected foul play, since Jefferson was tougher than one might've thought.